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Welcome to So, Here’s the Thing! If you’ve been a listener for a while, you know how much I believe in creating safe spaces through a diverse and inclusive brand. In this episode, Erica Courdae, a DEI Coach and Consultant, joins us to discuss what that can mean in your business! Listen in as she provides tangible steps and valuable information to building safe spaces in your business.

Erica Courdae has dedicated her life to expanding how others interact with the world through powerful conversations. As an entrepreneur and certified coach, her work is focused on diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI), imperfect allyship, and imposter syndrome. This work has taken her into communities and onto national stages as a speaker and educator at noteworthy industry events like AltSummit, ShePodcasts Live, and Being Boss. Erica is also the owner of an inclusive beauty salon, Silver Immersion, and the host of Pause on the Play, a podcast that features open dialogue on topics like company culture, visibility, and mindset.

Meet Erica (1:48)

Shame & Blame in Diversity (4:07)

Embracing Allyship (10:50)

Creating Inclusivity in Your Brand (19:00)

Ensuring You’re Walking Into Safe Spaces (24:03)
– Acknowledge if you’re comfortable being the minority in a space.
– What capacity do you have to navigate?

Unpopular Opinion (33:25)

Links
ericacourdae.com
instagram.com/ericacourdae
Grab Your Evaluation Checklist!
pauseontheplay.com
Akua’s Episode
Implicit to Explicit Masterclass
Ty Wilson
Autumn Witt Boyd

Review the Transcript for this episode below!

Laylee Emadi 0:05
Welcome to so here’s the thing where we share candid conversations that lift the veil on what it takes to find success, even if that means sharing a few unpopular opinions. I’m your host, Laylee Emadi, grab some coffee or cocktail and let’s get real. Hey friends welcome back to the show. I am pumped because I have just hit it off like no other before we hit record with our next guest. The one and only amazing Erica Courdae has dedicated her life to expanding how others interact with the world. Through powerful conversations. You guys know that’s my jam. She’s an entrepreneur and a certified coach. And her work is focused on diversity, equity and inclusion. You may have seen the acronym DEI, that’s what it stands for. She speaks on imperfect ally ship and imposter syndrome. You guys know how important all three of these topics are to me so I could not be more thrilled to have Erica on to talk with us today. Her work has taken her into communities onto national stages. She’s a speaker and educator. She’s been at places like alt summit, which we just discovered, we were there at the exact same time speaking, the exact same event. It’s crazy, and we didn’t get a chance to meet. She has been at she podcasts live at being boss. And she’s also the host of her own podcast pause on the play a podcast that features open dialogue on topics like company culture, visibility and mindset. She lives in Maryland with her husband and two children. And she’s phenomenal. Please go check her out. We will link everything in the show notes for you guys. But without further ado, I’m going to let Erica introduce herself. Tell us about your story, Erica, like why this is so important to you.

Erica Courdae 1:48
Oh my gosh, I’m so excited to be here. lately. I need you to know like, I don’t know where you’ve been on my life. But I’m so happy you’re here. Like, this is amazing. Um, yes, I am Erica core day to everyone listening. Thank you so much for listening to my voice. I’m super excited to be here. I am a black woman who has been passionate her entire life, about things that I didn’t even realize I was passionate about, because it was just in my DNA, being able to help people to realize how they can be a part of the change that they want to see creating equity. And just making things better in this world that I have had two beautiful children, I have gratefully been able to be the mother to in this world, like being able to leave it better than what I received it. My entire purpose is to remind people that change is possible. It is not about perfection, that doing this together is the only way that it can happen. And that being open to reconsidering your normal in learning, the things that maybe you didn’t know or didn’t realize were valid, can open you up to an entire different way of just living thinking and being and that’s the cornerstone of why doing something that people are like, ooh, di that’s a big thing. That’s hard. And I’m like, Yeah, I don’t want to do the easy stuff. I’m not here for that I’m here to make, like make change, it has to happen. So but I do it from a place that isn’t about shame. It’s not about blame. A lot of us have things that we didn’t know we weren’t aware of we weren’t taught we weren’t given the opportunity to know things differently. And when you do, from there going forward is all that matters. So shame and blame, I don’t invite them to the table. If you feel it, it’s just reminding you that there’s something to pay attention to. And to keep being an action. It’s not about being perfect. It’s just about constantly moving forward.

Laylee Emadi 3:43
I love that I completely agree. And it’s it’s so interesting. I heard Ty Wilson was a speaker on my virtual conference that I held a little bit ago here. And he said something in his talk about building inclusivity into your brand. And he said something about accepting Growing Pains for what they are like it’s okay if you’re uncomfortable because it’s just a growing pain.

Erica Courdae 4:07
Well, just the fact that like, people feel like the minute they start talking about diversity, equity, inclusion, anti racism, that shame and blame have to be a part of it, that they have to take them with a side of both. And some people do this work. And they do utilize shame and blame as like a catalyst. And some people can feel as though almost like they’re being guilted into doing this. And I tend to feel like I am not here to put that shame and blame on you. So I’m not going to tell you that you’re a horrible racist because you didn’t know and you now you’re never going to be able to shake it. I feel like what’s going to likely happen though was as you’re learning and you are deconditioning the old ways of thinking that you thought were the only ways of doing things. You may feel shame or you may feel a certain amount of blame that you put on yourself, but it is very different. To feel something that is self imposed, versus feeling doused upon you from the outside. And so for me, it’s very important to acknowledge that I’m not going to put that on you. However, if you feel it, it is drawing your attention to something that you need to dig deeper with. It’s telling you, hey, there’s something here, and it doesn’t want to let go. So what do you need to do to pay attention to it, it’s just kind of like being stuck in an old way of doing things like if you’re changing your, your diet or your health routine, and it’s like, yeah, eating the cookies, well, good. But I don’t feel good after I eat the cookies. And so therefore, I have to kind of decide, like, if I feel weird, letting it go, it doesn’t mean that it’s bad to do it. But I have to completely change the way that I’ve operated. And so sometimes having to let go of something that you felt like, well, that’s just what I do, that can cause you to have to completely shift the way you process yourself, the way you process your emotions and your actions. And so that’s where you’re getting to that point of like, what’s that feeling. And that’s where I feel like, the shame or blame can come up. And I think it does go really deeply into that imposter syndrome piece. Because my entire view on imposter syndrome is not that the imposter is who you’re becoming, the imposter is who you’ve had to be, to make it to this point, who did you have to be to be safe? Who did you have to project to the world in order to shield yourself, you are stepping into the next best version of yourself. And that authenticity of how real you can be is what scary, that’s what’s scary is scary of how awesome you can be. Not that you can’t be and you’re having to let go this lesser version, but it’s familiar and it’s comfortable, but it no longer fits, you have to let it go.

Laylee Emadi 6:49
That is literally the first time I’ve ever heard anyone take that approach to imposter syndrome. And my mind is literally blown. Like I’m over here kind of freaking out a little bit because I feel so hurt and seen by that by that analysis of imposter syndrome. So, you know, I mentioned to you when we were chatting earlier that I am, I was born in Iran. And I really I did very much have to imposter myself to fit into kind of the quote unquote norm, especially of I mean, in every stage of my life from childhood to you know, adolescence to now adulthood and being in the creative industry. Especially when I entered into the creative industry as a photographer, you know, like nine years ago, it was definitely like one type of person and I was not that person. So I became that person. I mean, so visibly that my friends and family were like, oh, like we need to give you you know, quote unquote, like white girl name for your Instagram, because that’s not really you, but you’re really trying to make that you and I would get so hurt by that because I was like, Well, I’m just doing my best to market and meet, you know, meet the industry where it’s at. But when I let go of that a few years ago, like that is when things skyrocketed, for me. And in a very humble way. I’m trying to say that like, this is not a place of conceit or bragging but truly the more I accepted that, like I can shed that imposter, you know, character that I’ve become and step into who I am who is a little bit sassy, like I’m a little spicy, but that’s okay. Like, you know, and just just really embracing that. I don’t have to be pink and bubbly and bright all the time. I can wear my all black and be who I am and be be really spicy and it’s fine. And people loved it because I was just being authentic. So thank you for bringing that part of it into into this conversation because I do think that it’s one of those things we just, we just breezed past because we think oh, imposter syndrome just means like, I’m quote unquote, not enough. But that’s like a whole new layer.

Erica Courdae 9:02
Nope, nope, you are more than enough. And so you’re afraid of like, wait, what happens when I let that me out. And as somebody that still has my beauty brand and for years was fully immersed in the wedding industry. I understand exactly what you’re talking about. And having to be what you need to be to be accepted to make the money to not I mean, I remember walking in a room to have a roomful of bridesmaids and brides already met me. But all the bridesmaids may be all white and they’re like, Oh wait, she’s gonna do my hair. And then they didn’t think I could do it. And the minute I did the first person that everybody’s like, Oh, I can go next. Oh, I had to prove myself to be here. I understand now. I understand.

Laylee Emadi 9:45
Oh my gosh, I am just you guys who are listening to people who are listening in are probably like whoa, this is getting so deep. But honestly I feel like for those I we have a lot of people listening who are in the wedding industry and so I know this is going to hit a lot of people really close to home and And I know that exact feeling of walking into a wedding day or even walking onto a stage in in a, you know, wedding industry event or walking onto the stage in any kind of a creative, you know, creative entrepreneurial event and thinking like, Okay, do I need to dress the same as everyone? Uh, you know, it’s just it’s so it has so many layers. So thank you for bringing that up. I feel like we could go off on like 400 tangents. Okay, so I would, I really could I could talk to you forever. We might, this might be a long episode. And that’s, that’s great. That’s okay, because I think it’s an important topic. Okay, so I want to hear about your take on imperfect ally ship, because you did touch on this in the beginning. And I don’t want to breeze past it, because it did stick out to me the importance of being an imperfect ally, what that means how people can really embrace that title.

Erica Courdae 10:50
Absolutely. I will say that I noticed a lot of people I hear ally, I’ll hear accomplice out here, co conspirator. And I will say for me that I think that the nuances that can come with semantics are important. And at the same time, I don’t want to see people getting so caught up in what the label is that they forget about the work that they’re actually there to do. And so for me, I think that it’s so important to remember that there is no part of this work that is based in perfection, there is no part of you that is going to step up and say that I want to provide an opportunity to others to have their voices and their skills and their existence amplified to be able to provide the same levels of access, and I’m thriving security safety opportunities that I take for granted. I want to provide that to you, I want to provide an opportunity for you to be able to open the door and have these things free and clear. And it doesn’t have to feel like it’s easy for me because of my skin or because of whatever my current access level is whether it’s because of my race, because of my religion, because of my age, because of my socio economic status. It’s someone saying I have these things, and you don’t have the same level of access. And I’m not okay with that. So what I do have, I’m going to utilize as a tool to shift that disparity to bring in equity. But I know that what I’m seeing and feeling. And what I see you experiencing is not light, it’s not easy. And I’m learning what this looks like I am learning the specific pieces that I don’t experience because I’m not a part of it. And so as I call it, you’re going to eat some Nike, don’t put your foot in your mouth a whole lot of times. And as you do that, you understand that that doesn’t mean that you stop, it doesn’t mean that you’re wrong, it doesn’t mean that you’re bad for it, it means that you are on a journey to do better. You have hit a growth edge, you’re learning something, you get the lesson from it, you make amends for any harm that you’ve done, and you rinse and repeat you continue. The perfect is the perfect ideal. It’s crap, it’s a lie, it doesn’t exist, you are going to be imperfect. And you still need to be an action. Just keep moving. It’s all right, give yourself that permission. Don’t purposefully be harmful after that’s another piece. However, being perfect, those of us that need allies to be the ones to speak up so that we’re not exhausted constantly speaking up for ourselves, we don’t have the luxury of waiting for you to be comfortable.

Laylee Emadi 13:40
Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you for sharing that. Because I really do think that a lot of people struggle with, you know, wanting to say the right thing or wanting to do the right thing. And that almost becomes an additional hurdle for them to step up, step forward and, and take some kind of action, because they’re so afraid that they’re going to miss step. And that is just gonna it’s just going to happen. I think if you realize that, yeah, you probably will miss up, I have made so many missteps in my ally ship journeys, that it is important to acknowledge when that happens and to learn from it and to grow from it. And so that the next action that you take the next step forward that you take, can be a better one and can just continual continually improve your journey as an ally because it is not. I also think we’re at a really interesting time. Just decidedly like we’re just in a really interesting time of people wanting to say like my eyes have been opened, wanting to go hopefully wanting to go beyond, you know, an Instagram movement and go into real life movements and real life actions. And so I guess I would love to hear your input on on the now what we had an episode on here, kind of like at the height in 2020 of the black hole. Matter Movement really getting traction on social media, we had akua konadu on to talk about ally ship and what that looks like. And she and I talked about how it is not like a right now thing, it’s a it’s an ongoing forever thing like this is something that has to continue. And I think that as things come in and out of the media or in and out of social media as quote unquote, like trending movements, right? It can, it’s easy to lose steam. So I’d love to hear from you like, how can I how can we, as a society, ensure that one another are not losing steam? Like how could I even, you know, continue to push my audience and push my own within my reach? Like, how can I continue to encourage people to take action,

Erica Courdae 15:50
Right, and so this is one of the things we talk about often in our community, pause on the play, because people specifically come in, and they’re like, I want to do things differently. I want to shift who I’m amplifying, I want to provide equity. And there’s this point of like, I want to do better, but what happens when I get afraid of doing it wrong? Or I want to do more. But what happens when I’m trying to figure out what is more actually is more because I said that that’s what the more needs to be? Or is this actually what is needed? Is this what these underserved, you know, communities, or people that identify in this way, actually are requesting and are in need of. And so I think one of the big things that I often see as an underlying piece of it, is people are afraid to constantly be in conversation. And so the conversation is not about here’s conversation, or here’s action as if there are two separate things. Because there are parts of it that I think the only way that you can figure out the actions that need to be taken is by being in the conversations with those that you want to support and being able to step out of like, well, this is my bubble. And this is what I see. And this is what I know, it’s like, well, what else is there? What else is there that I’m not aware of? What else is it that I am not experiencing? Because that’s just not the way that my life is set up at this point. And I think that that gives you some insight, that’s extremely important. But the reason that that conversation is also an action in itself is because to put yourself in a situation, to talk with someone who looks lives and loves very differently than you to understand how you can move differently in your ally ship and through the world, to see their point of view. And to understand what you can do to facilitate equity for them. And those that identify similarly, that’s an action, it’s an action that requires a lot of vulnerability. It requires a lot of listening and actually hearing what’s being said, and also understanding that it’s likely going to draw some attention to some areas that maybe you feel like you haven’t done all that you can do. But this is an opportunity to see where you can be better, not where you weren’t good enough. There’s there’s a big difference there. And so understanding that the conversation itself is an action, but also that that conversation leads you to the next actions that need to be taken.

Laylee Emadi 18:24
That is awesome. Yes, thank you so much for that. I like just to kind of piggyback off that, what are some of the strategies that you personally use or that you feel like people can start to use to make sure that all of their clients really feel welcome and safe? And that they are going through that process of thinking like, how can I actually be inclusive? How can I actually spark this change in the way that I’m running my business? I know that you have your own salon, I know you have your online coaching business, and I’m sure you use a lot of strategies to do that. So I’d love to hear those.

Erica Courdae 19:01
One of the big things that we do that I feel like is a cornerstone, and one of the first steps is really identifying your values. So we have a masterclass. It’s implicit to explicit and it’s really getting people to go through and to identify, what are your values? What do you support, what are you against, and it’s very different than the surface level like you you’re digging in, and you’re really getting to the root of some of these things. And the reason that getting to those values and really feeling like you understand them clearly in a way that they can be conveyed to other people is because you can’t clearly say who you are inviting in and who’s included if you don’t understand who you’re including and why you’re including them. Because inclusion to me is not about including everyone. Inclusion is about making sure that those that want to be included and want to partake in it. Know that they have free and clear access to it. Because if I said I was including everyone, then that would mean that the people That took part in the insurgency on the Capitol that I’m saying, Yeah, come on in. No, I’m not. So I clearly not including everyone I am including those that want to be a part of my message and my mission and furthering that, for others that are seeking their ally ship to facilitate that. And so figuring out what those values looks like means that you can then say, Okay, I know who I want to be included. I know, from being in conversation with them and listening to them and paying attention, that this is what will actually facilitate that this was what will actually help that happen. And you’re also being able to say, Well, what is it that needs to happen? So that it’s also clear what’s going to make a safe environment? Because if I’m saying I want you to be included, can I create space that you’re safe in? And I say that as a black woman who has been in spaces where I was the only or the minority, and they weren’t safe? And you don’t know that they’re safe until they’re not? Because they’re, they’ll say, Oh, yeah, we’re good. And then it’s like, oh, wait, no, this didn’t work out well, when something actually happened. And so I think before you can do anything, you have to start by saying, This is what matters, this matters for people that identify in this type of way, and that these are the values that matter to them. This is how I can be of support to you. And then this is how I want to hold space for this. And what do I do if it goes wrong? But you have to understand like, what what, why am I doing this? What is the purpose, because otherwise, you’re just doing for the doing sake, or you’re doing it because you’re afraid to get cancelled? And this is the proper thing to do at this point. Because I do think that just like you mentioned earlier, that whole like this is not right now. You’re doing it because this is what we do. Now. That’s not the thing. It’s about. This is ongoing. And I know that this is long game marathon work. But I’m willing to do the work right now to create a solid foundation with which I can go forward on.

Laylee Emadi 22:09
Yeah, I totally agree. And I would love to hear your perspective, we talked before we hit record, we were actually talking about, you know how this is kind of, it’s become this double edged sword where it is very, it’s almost bittersweet, like, it’s very exciting to see so many people really appear to want to move in the direction of embracing diversity, embracing inclusivity, and inclusion. But at the same time, there are some people who really are out there just kind of doing it because they don’t want to get cancelled, or they don’t want, they don’t get called out. And so there is a huge difference in my perspective, as somebody who teaches on on diversity or who speaks on diversity, from my own personal story standpoint. And I try really hard to be an ally. And so I think that that’s kind of hard for people to differentiate until sometimes it’s too late, like you mentioned, you get into that space, and then you realize, Oh, this actually isn’t a safe space for me. So kind of taking like a little bit of a tangent, I would just love to hear like, what your perspective is on when it comes to kind of differentiating between is, is this person who wants to work with me at this point, like from the perspective of somebody who could potentially be tokenized? How do you? How do you advise people to kind of move forward? I mean, I mentioned like, I get on one on one calls before I sign any contracts now just to just to differentiate, and that’s a pretty big clarifier for me, because I feel like, I hope that I’m right. And then I can get a good gut feeling from people like the second we talked, we were like, We’re best friends. But I can it could go the opposite direction pretty easily with me. But for those people who don’t necessarily have that, inherently in them, like that judge that character judgment, red flag, like, what are some things that people can do to really ensure that they are walking into safe spaces as a person who is in the minority?

Erica Courdae 24:04
I think one of the first things there is to acknowledge whether or not you are comfortable being the minority or the only person in a space because I can say for me, I’ve gone into plenty of spaces and been the only black woman, the only black person. And I consciously knew that and specifically went in kind of being a disrupter. Because I knew for a fact that i i shouldn’t be the only person here and there’s a lot of conversations not being had because there isn’t anyone else here that looks like me. And so because of that, I specifically went in knowing that I wanted to bring attention to the lack there of but I was equipped to handle that. I think when you go into a space and you don’t know that that’s what you’re signing up for, or you are not there to have to speak on or address the lack of Diversity that’s happening in the space, that doesn’t work as well. So you first have to just kind of say like, Can I be in a space? And it’s just me, and maybe they’re not as aware yet. And I think if there is a place of you going in and thinking, yes, I am ready, and I am aware, and you can see that maybe it’s too much cut your losses, it is a okay to say I can’t do this anymore, because I’ve been in spaces where they did feel safe. And then all of a sudden, it was like, oh, it is not is not safe at all in here. And even asking for support. I’ve had times where I didn’t get it. And so I’m like, okay, it wasn’t here. I asked for things to be done differently, nothing changed. And so therefore, I’m not going to do this. I don’t have to accept it. I don’t have to just deal with it. And so you can say no, but I think if you’re going in, then you can ask questions, like, you know, is there any other type of diversity in the room? Because I do think that it’s also important to acknowledge the diversity that maybe you don’t see in somebody’s skin color, or you know, their gender from like a surface or first level of parents type of thing. So it’s important to acknowledge, is there any diversity in the room? Beyond appearance? Is there any type of conversation that will allow anything to come up that will address the differences between us? And what makes us unique? But also, is there any type of framework or process in place or just the opportunity? If things don’t go, well? What happens if harm does in unintentionally happen? Can someone speak up? Is there a space for restorative justice? Is there an opportunity to have a conversation around what’s happening? Or can we just not talk about this, because I saw a lot of people last year after George Floyd was murdered, that their communities things went sideways real quick. And all of a sudden, they were like, I don’t know what to do with this. I don’t know how to wrangle this in this has just gotten out of hand. And so I do think it’s important to think about those things ahead of time. And so like my business partner, India, and I, we partnered with automatic Boyd and her law firm, and we actually helped to create some contracts, and membership community terms and conditions that did help to address some of those things, because I just saw a lot of people last year that were struggling, and they didn’t know what to do. But at the same time, like that was one of those things to where, like, you probably didn’t know, because who was planning for this, who expected this. So I think sometimes it is, as the facilitator or, or owner of a space to kind of plan for the unplayable as much as you can. But then as the person going in having to really have a true, honest heart to heart with yourself. Why am I going in this space? What do I hope to accomplish? And what do I have the capacity to navigate at this moment? Because I do think that prior to COVID, capacity may have looked very different than it does right now.

Laylee Emadi 28:06
Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s such a good point for both, both the person who is looking at hosting an event or being a speaker at an event who might not have those same, you know, hold ups that that somebody who is more diverse, or who has some kind of, quote unquote, otherness that has to decide, Am I safe in this space? I think it’s just, you brought up a lot of points that anybody could or should be thinking about before, you know, making a choice to affiliate themselves, or associate themselves with a brand with an event with, you know, whoever it is. And, and I know that my I love that you said it’s something that you need to think Am I prepared to do this? And be honest with yourself about because if I’m being honest, I’ve made that decision, probably more than a handful of times where I thought, yeah, I know what I’m walking into, I can handle it. And then I get in the room. And I’m like, this was a mistake. I cannot handle this. So why am I here? As you know, I, I’m probably usually one of very few people who does not identify as a Christian, young white woman, in most of the conferences I went to, I mean, now it’s it, there has been a shift. And I’m thankful for that shift. But in the first few years of my business, that’s what it was. And so when every keynote had a Bible quote, or every speaker had a journey in their business, that they related to their faith, it was very difficult for me to be able to feel one not excluded and to like I could actually take tangible business advice from these leaders. Because if they’re only relying on something that I don’t have, I don’t necessarily have as part of my life journey. What is the takeaway for me and so there were so many levels to that and I thought every time I thought I can handle it, it’s okay. Like I’m from Texas. I can get it like it’s okay. I’m from the south. I’m used to it like, it’s cool. But I was wrong. I was lying to myself. And so I do really want to, you know, acknowledge the fact that what you said is so poignant and that people really need to be honest with like, with yourself, have a heart to heart with yourself, like, Can you really handle it? Or do you just really want to go? Because I just wanted to go

Erica Courdae 30:21
Right, I think that there’s times that we’re like, oh, I got it. And then you’re like, I didn’t know how deep this ran. No, nevermind. And this is where I think that we have to remind ourselves that it is okay. to kind of step away from that. What is it sunk costs type of thing? Like, yeah, I put money into this. And this doesn’t feel good anymore. Like if you pay for a membership, and you’re like, No, no, no, no, no, no. And I also think that there’s a place for those of us that were not raised with the same level of entitlement around asking for what you want, being able to say, this does not work for me. This is what I need to be the next step. And this is what I hope to be the outcome and being able to have that conversation. Because for a lot of us, it was not easy, and a given to say, Oh, well, of course ask for what you want. You, me and I can actually want. And it’s safe to want, let alone to verbalize it to someone else wait. And so you’ve completely negated the cultural pieces of how that’s not always the case for everyone. And so there’s something to be said, for those of us that do find ourselves in a position of not feeling as safe and supported as we want to be that we can speak up and ask for what we want, whatever that is, and that we we have options. We don’t have to just deal and to just say, Oh, well, I can’t fix it. We don’t have to do that. And I think that there’s something to be said about having to acknowledge that we don’t have to be okay, with a lack of safety and security and support. Like that is something that I’m hugely against, because for a very long time, we didn’t think that we had other options. And I believe that we absolutely do. We have to just take it, it’s just not gonna be given.

Laylee Emadi 32:14
Yeah, oh, my gosh, yes, it is not, you just have to take it like you have to ask. And I love that. Because I really think that it’s something that so many people struggle with, and you know, the quote unquote, other side of the coin, like they don’t they just don’t see it. It’s like you said, Unless you have a lived experience, there’s just some things that not that are not inherent to understand, for everybody. So I love that. Okay, so I think that there’s so many points that we talked about, that people can really, really stink on, and so many action steps that people can take within their own businesses as well. I’d love to kind of hear I mean, honestly, typically, at the end of a conversation on this podcast, I asked what your unpopular opinion on the topic is, but this topic, I feel like in itself can be an unpopular opinion, because it is a hard topic. It is not. I don’t want anyone who’s listening to this be like, Oh, well, that sounds like a fun and easy breezy conversation to have. It’s not. But I’d love to hear if you have like closing thoughts, maybe action steps or anything that you want to just pose to our audience, in this in this quick wrap up.

Erica Courdae 33:25
I think if you listen to this conversation, and you’re hearing it, and you’re thinking that it’s easy, that there is a place of privilege and ease that you have. And I implore you to utilize that as a weapon for good. Because a lot of us don’t have easy access to that. And so that can be utilized to say, well, this shouldn’t be this way. So how can this be different? And how can this change? And I think that that part of you that has that thought process of Well, of course I can change it. Of course this can look differently. I want you to utilize that for betterment, I want you to take that and say, Hmm, okay, it’s not okay for things to have these huge chasms between them, these disparities that simply separate us. So if I feel like it can be easy, how can I utilize that for fuel, because unfortunately, there’s a lot of people that come to this work from a place of being downtrodden and exhausted. And unfortunately, after George Floyd was murdered, a lot of people that did find themselves in an awakening, it came from a place of all of a sudden, having stories and, and conversations, and images and videos constantly reminding you that a black man was murdered on film for eight minutes and 46 seconds. And we passed off this snuff film as news and so that is damaging to your psyche, your nervous system. I mean, that’s hard. And so a lot of people came to this from trauma. So if you have an opportunity to come to this from a place of like, Oh, no, that’s not okay. And you’re able to come from a less traumatic place, I want you to be able to utilize that to your advantage. Because everybody can benefit from that. Because the reality is, is that a lot of people weren’t able to do that. So that means that you have more space ahead of you to be able to step into this from a place of being willing, being able, being more energized, having more possibilities that you feel like you have access to, because you don’t have the trauma that is draped across your shoulders. As you walk into this house. It’s a lot. And so if you are hearing this, and you have the capacity, I want you to join the marathon and take the baton for some of us that are more exhausted and, and and join the fight seriously. That’s an entire thing. use that energy, because energy is at a at a premium right now. And there’s not enough of it to go around. So we need more people that are like I’m willing to join the fight. Yes,

Laylee Emadi 36:14
Yes, for sure. I so appreciate your sharing that perspective. And honestly, just sharing that, that example as well. Because I do think that so many people just don’t even think about it in that way. And that that in itself is a privilege. I always say like what a privilege it is for you to be able to pick and choose, when you’re going to pay attention to something when you’re going to speak against something, when you’re going to voice a concern about something. Even in my own home, we have this conversation a lot I’m married to, I like to call him as wide as you could possibly get Tim Smith Boy Next Door, like he’s the all American, you know, guy I never thought I’d be with but he’s great. But in the conversations that we have here, it is very prevalent that like, you really can choose, you got you got all the privileges, you know, and so I think that it is something that’s easy to get our guards up about and say like, What do you mean, I’m pretty, you know, that’s kind of like the age old story. But I really appreciate you sharing that perspective of if you have that ability to choose to now be an ally or to now speak up, you’ve got that perk of that energy, like you’re ready to go. You’re You’re like feeling you’re starting to feel that fire, like lean into it like let’s go because because I know that there’s so many people that need a break. And so many of us can shoulder that burden for so many of them. So I appreciate that. Absolutely.

Erica Courdae 37:45
I think it’s important to remember that just because you can take more and you can endure more, doesn’t mean that it’s okay that you have to absolutely.

Laylee Emadi 37:55
Yes. Well, thank you so much Erica, I can you tell everybody where they can find you where they can connect with you. I mean, we will link all of your amazing stuff in our show notes. Because I know that you have like a really awesome ally evaluation checklists, freebie that we’re gonna link in our show notes. And we you have a lot of other resources we’re going to link up. But where can people connect with you?

Erica Courdae 38:17
Absolutely. So if you want to know more about me, you can come on over to my website, which is Ericacourdae.com, you can learn about my services, you will see the sign up for the imperfect ally ship checklist. You’ll also be able to go on over to pause on the play.com where you can learn more about the podcast, you can learn more about the community. And if you are interested in the implicit to explicit masterclass, which I was mentioning before, we do have one coming up in April. And we cap it at only six people in the room because we think it’s important to keep it as an intimate group so that you can get a little bit more specialized support with it. And so if you have questions on that, or you want it directly just for you and your organization privately, that’s an option too. But you can learn more again, Ericacourdae.com pauseontheplay.com and that will give you all the info you need.

Laylee Emadi 39:08
Thank you so much. Yeah, what a great idea to be able to if you have a small team, or if you have like a cohort of entrepreneur friends like business besties like what a great investment of your time and your resources to be able to really dive into making sure that you are doing things in the way that you really want to be able to represent yourself in So I love that Thank you, Erica,

Erica Courdae 39:32
Of course Laylee. Thank you for having me.

Laylee Emadi 39:35
For show notes and resources mentioned on today’s episode head to so here’s the thing podcast.com and if you’re enjoying the podcast, I’d love to read your review in iTunes. Thanks so much for listening and I’ll catch you in the next episode.